hum, i'm wondering something, and i know it has nothing to do with the post, but i'm not willing to register on RL boards yet, so deal with it.
What kind of pathfinding method are you using ? You're not using A* according to the design docs (and god, i understand why now that I've tried it on a large scale). So is it purely a "ant" algorithm using different kinds of scents or a collision-avoidance or a combination of all of that?
The pf is ant-like examining only neighbouring tiles, computing heuristic values on them and choosing the best score. More formaly, it is a breadth-first search algorithm with Depth=1 that use an heuristic function like A* to score nodes. I can afford to do that because AI behaviors are local, they don't have to plan anything over the whole map.
I don't use A*, but it migth in the future. I will not use "standard" A* but a hierarchical A* with partial paths which should be very efficient given RS map topologies.
Yes i see the method here, playing as a zombie gives a large hint on that matter. That's something i can't use sadly as my NPC need to know where they are going (but that's also all they have to do apart from bumping on their target until their needs are satisfied)
About A*, i've experimented a lot with it these days. Even if i probably suck at implementing it efficiently (first try), using a basic collision avoidance pathfinder that uses nearly no cpu before switching to A* if no result is provided is definitively saving a bunch of CPU time in most cases. But well, if your NPC don't have long term goals / destinations it's probably irrelevant and i'm thinking out loud :p
back on topic, i wasn't aware of the hierarchical A* method. I did a quick google search giving me mixed result with a lot of theory and next to none real code (or pseudo-code) on that matter. I read any code easily, theory not so much sadly. Any link? I imagine that it calculates a path toward a point nearby your destination and when the actor arrives there and call the function again it 'finishes' the road. (i can also be very wrong on that matter).
HPA* idea is to apply A* on different levels of map abstractions.
Let's take the map and image you zoom out and look at it. You see "abstract tiles" which are rooms, streets, buildings etc... Connect the "big tiles" (zones) and that's a graph you can do A* on. Instead of directly searching tiles you first search zones. You obtain a hi-level path that gives you a global idea of the final path and is very fast to compute since the search space is very small (few zones). Then later you can apply A* on the tiles to get the path from the current zone your NPC is in to the next in the path.
It's "hierarchical" as you have two graph layers, zones and tiles, and you can apply A* on each one. It's "partial" as you don't need to know all the details of the path, just how to move to the next zone.
The difficulty lies in how to connect zones at the tile level. The zones needs also to be homegenous or the lo level A* will have to make a lot of silly detours. In RS I would use the zones already there for the zone layer (streets and buildings) and boundaries for entry/exit.
Two things I've thought of after playing the latest version for a few days.
You ought to change it so that when you kill a rat only blood is left behind and not a skull, because a human skeleton falling out of a rat is weird.
Another thing, maybe remains should decay after awhile? I survived for two weeks once and there were barely any panels that weren't caked with gore and skulls.
Lol i already suggested that they decay or disappear after awhile on forums, but thanks god someone else understands the problem i had with skulls all over
Hey there survivors ive just finished my review for this game in its current build of course check it out here>http://www.thegamerhive.com/members/profile/243/blog-view/50
Here is a list of fixes/bugs/wants 4 u, dear RS programmer: 1.Police should not shoot for murders if i havent been seen by anybody. 2.Me want Katana,Chainsaw and powerful Boomstick. 3.Ability to eat corpses and heal (for undead) 4.Tripwire will be fun. ) 5.Reduce walk speed in water. 6.Locks on doors and lockers. 7.Alarm (Maybe from cans, like it was in Jagged Alliance) 8.Increased view when standing on a car/table etc. 9.Shops are very quickly became empty because of the survivors, and running for army supply drops is not fun.
p.s. Its Colt not a Kolt ) Hope U woll have some inspiration of that.
At the 3rd Anon from this post: 1. That makes little to no consequence to murder, and Balance > Realism. 2. Don't we all? 3. Yup. 4. Eh? I guess... 5. Assuming he makes water... 6. And we would open them... how? 7. What? 8. A 2-foot increase in height isn't going to do anything... 9. What's the suggestion? At p.s.: He made it the Kolt rather than Colt for copyright reasons.
Im not sure if you could add this but, i like to make some things realistic from the modding tools you gave us around A5 but could you possibly add in a stamina takeaway from guns and set it to as a default so people like me could make it so like shotguns take away some stamina because some average joe cant walk up pick up a shotgun for the first time and still be standing when he shoots it.
you too !
ReplyDeleteFear Zombie-Father-Christmas, he take your brainz and bring you pain.
Does this mean Christmas update? :O
ReplyDeleteholy crap, this is epic. merry christmas as well, and keep up the great work on rs!
ReplyDeletelol zanta is coming to town !!!
ReplyDeletehum, i'm wondering something, and i know it has nothing to do with the post, but i'm not willing to register on RL boards yet, so deal with it.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of pathfinding method are you using ? You're not using A* according to the design docs (and god, i understand why now that I've tried it on a large scale). So is it purely a "ant" algorithm using different kinds of scents or a collision-avoidance or a combination of all of that?
No problem with posting here.
ReplyDeleteThe pf is ant-like examining only neighbouring tiles, computing heuristic values on them and choosing the best score.
More formaly, it is a breadth-first search algorithm with Depth=1 that use an heuristic function like A* to score nodes.
I can afford to do that because AI behaviors are local, they don't have to plan anything over the whole map.
I don't use A*, but it migth in the future.
I will not use "standard" A* but a hierarchical A* with partial paths which should be very efficient given RS map topologies.
Yes i see the method here, playing as a zombie gives a large hint on that matter. That's something i can't use sadly as my NPC need to know where they are going (but that's also all they have to do apart from bumping on their target until their needs are satisfied)
ReplyDeleteAbout A*, i've experimented a lot with it these days. Even if i probably suck at implementing it efficiently (first try), using a basic collision avoidance pathfinder that uses nearly no cpu before switching to A* if no result is provided is definitively saving a bunch of CPU time in most cases. But well, if your NPC don't have long term goals / destinations it's probably irrelevant and i'm thinking out loud :p
back on topic, i wasn't aware of the hierarchical A* method. I did a quick google search giving me mixed result with a lot of theory and next to none real code (or pseudo-code) on that matter. I read any code easily, theory not so much sadly. Any link? I imagine that it calculates a path toward a point nearby your destination and when the actor arrives there and call the function again it 'finishes' the road. (i can also be very wrong on that matter).
No code either but I can explain the idea.
ReplyDeleteHPA* idea is to apply A* on different levels of map abstractions.
Let's take the map and image you zoom out and look at it. You see "abstract tiles" which are rooms, streets, buildings etc...
Connect the "big tiles" (zones) and that's a graph you can do A* on.
Instead of directly searching tiles you first search zones.
You obtain a hi-level path that gives you a global idea of the final path and is very fast to compute since the search space is very small (few zones).
Then later you can apply A* on the tiles to get the path from the current zone your NPC is in to the next in the path.
It's "hierarchical" as you have two graph layers, zones and tiles, and you can apply A* on each one.
It's "partial" as you don't need to know all the details of the path, just how to move to the next zone.
The difficulty lies in how to connect zones at the tile level. The zones needs also to be homegenous or the lo level A* will have to make a lot of silly detours.
In RS I would use the zones already there for the zone layer (streets and buildings) and boundaries for entry/exit.
oki, thanks for the clarifications, i may give it a try.
ReplyDeleteTwo things I've thought of after playing the latest version for a few days.
ReplyDeleteYou ought to change it so that when you kill a rat only blood is left behind and not a skull, because a human skeleton falling out of a rat is weird.
Another thing, maybe remains should decay after awhile? I survived for two weeks once and there were barely any panels that weren't caked with gore and skulls.
Lol i already suggested that they decay or disappear after awhile on forums, but thanks god someone else understands the problem i had with skulls all over
ReplyDeleteSanta skeleton FTW.
ReplyDeleteMerry Christmas!
ReplyDeleteYour game is undeadly cool! :D
Kepp on, mate!
From Russia with love(:
happy xmas and new year 2011
ReplyDeletekeep these zombies happy w/ santa and his 12 jauge shotgun :)
happy coding in the year ahead
ReplyDelete-rs fan
Anything new going on behind the scenes?
ReplyDeleteMerry Christmas.
ReplyDeleteI wished we could go on rooftops but that's probably beyond the game engine right?
ReplyDeleteIt really is not im assuming but you cannot "shoot at people above your z level" which is why most people want to go to rooftops.
ReplyDeleteHey there survivors ive just finished my review for this game in its current build of course check it out here>http://www.thegamerhive.com/members/profile/243/blog-view/50
ReplyDeletePlease sign up or log in to continue
ReplyDeleteKthxno
Here is a list of fixes/bugs/wants 4 u, dear RS programmer:
ReplyDelete1.Police should not shoot for murders if i havent been seen by anybody.
2.Me want Katana,Chainsaw and powerful Boomstick.
3.Ability to eat corpses and heal (for undead)
4.Tripwire will be fun. )
5.Reduce walk speed in water.
6.Locks on doors and lockers.
7.Alarm (Maybe from cans, like it was in Jagged Alliance)
8.Increased view when standing on a car/table etc.
9.Shops are very quickly became empty because of the survivors, and running for army supply drops is not fun.
p.s. Its Colt not a Kolt )
Hope U woll have some inspiration of that.
1. Agree
ReplyDelete2. no
3. Maybe
4. ?
5. What?
6. NO
7 NO/YES depending if its a alarm to make for people in your base and a short range otherwise NO.
8. no
Hey RJ!
ReplyDeleteHave you thought of having corpses attract the dead? And zombies that cannibalize corpses?
Could be useful for herding zombies into or out of an area, and a good gameplay mechanic. They could also smell blood or sumthing.
-Austin
At the 3rd Anon from this post:
ReplyDelete1. That makes little to no consequence to murder, and Balance > Realism.
2. Don't we all?
3. Yup.
4. Eh? I guess...
5. Assuming he makes water...
6. And we would open them... how?
7. What?
8. A 2-foot increase in height isn't going to do anything...
9. What's the suggestion?
At p.s.: He made it the Kolt rather than Colt for copyright reasons.
Also, there are forums you could suggest on.
Im not sure if you could add this but, i like to make some things realistic from the modding tools you gave us around A5 but could you possibly add in a stamina takeaway from guns and set it to as a default so people like me could make it so like shotguns take away some stamina because some average joe cant walk up pick up a shotgun for the first time and still be standing when he shoots it.
ReplyDeleteIt really depends on the gauge the shotgun shoots, some have very little recoil.
ReplyDeleteI had no problem with shotguns the first time I shot one, and I was only 13.
ReplyDelete